Nope. I have not argued plastics are not used. Nor have I argued most plastics usually were created from petroleum. (I certainly have not discussed “petroleum oil” but that’s also another matter. People often use “petroleum ” and “oil” as if they are the same thing.)

I contend plastic is not petroleum and petroleum is not plastic.

When someone says, “No matter how you slice it, these panels could not exist without petroleum,” they are saying there is no other way to make the components. This is false. For example, the ethylene vinyl acetate I mentioned earlier can be made from sugarcane but is not still sugarcane.

When I point out “Lumber is not part of a non-wooden porch.” I acknowledge there are other ways to make porches. They can be made of rock or steel or aluminum or concrete or brick or even glass, for examples. They are not made of petroleum as is claimed in, “Petroleum is, however.”

Petroleum CAN be used to synthesize some materials which might be used. Those will not be petroleum. The porch will not be petroleum.

David for recognition of distinction

Petroleum is, however. You’re trying to argue there’s no plastic in those panels. Plastic is made from petroleum. Your argument that it can be synthesized in other ways is irrelevant because it isn’t, not in these panels. Check out the manufacturers of the panels if you don’t believe me.

Except that it isn’t . Solar panels are not composed of petroleum. Even the ethylene vinyl acetate portion is not petroleum. Nor is petroleum necessary as a precursor. Even if it were, the energy equivalent is probably less than one hour’s worth of output expected to last more than twenty-five years. There are no molecules which can not be synthesized without starting with petroleum.

Yes, lumber is part of a wood porch. Lumber is not part of a non-wooden porch.

AND:
“the best energy plan for the future is to have less people that need it.”

Nah. Given a finite supply of energy, fewer people using it just extends the time until it is depleted. Sure, too many people can be a problem but it’s a separate problem.

AND:
“Hydroelectric and geothermal power are awesome, but are only viable in areas that have rivers and geothermal vents.”

They are good but hydroelectric requires more than just water. You also need elevation change. Maximum energy in foot-pounds is feet of elevation change times pounds of water involved. Geothermal doesn’t require geothermal vents although they are easiest to tap into. Geothermal just has to go deep enough to reach rock hot enough for the demand.

Minor points.

David for nuclear

It’s not a bait and switch because the petroleum isn’t just used to provide energy for the manufacturing of the solar panels. Petroleum is part of the actual panels the same way lumber is part of a wood porch. No matter how you slice it, these panels could not exist without petroleum.

We have advanced to a state where we are our own natural predator, we control our population through miens such as education, birth control, family planning, abortion, and largely in part War. So, we have now demonized abortion, made birth control outside of marriage a moral crime, teach children not to listen to their family and fight wars with stocks instead of guns.

In conclusion the best energy plan for the future is to have less people that need it.

the end.

You bring up a few good points.

Solar power only works during the day and wind turbines only work when it is windy. They require batteries for when the sun isn’t shining or the wind isn’t blowing.

Hydroelectric and geothermal power are awesome, but are only viable in areas that have rivers and geothermal vents.

Nuclear power, especially reactors powered by thorium, are fantastic. However, people are paranoid about nuclear power after events like Fukushima and Chernobyl, so any new nuclear plants are doomed to die in the planning phase.

The best way to reduce our consumption of non-renewable fossil fuels is to reduce our energy consumption AND explore multiple alternatives, including solar.

True but irrelevant. It just means storage is needed some of the time.

“This green energy (no offense to your last name) is terrible”

I agree. I should get some sort of commission!!!!

David for royalties

There is more to making a solar panel than just what oil it takes to make that panel.

There is the fact its made in china. They then ship it here, then the install and maintenance and everything involved. SOLAR will not work long term to provide us with the electricity we need. It will barely cover the cost and labor when rates are very high. Then when they need replacing that cost will roll right back into the user.
Thew cheapest is nuclear and then dams. The rate of return is far better and we have a very very large amount of the materials to build those. Solar works only in the day. The batteries needed will be another nightmare of replacement cost.

This green energy (no offense to your last name) is terrible. TERRIBLE in its current form. Its just a money grab that will fail very soon and maybe wiser people will be in charge to FIX the problems.

FPL will raise rates no matter what they do in order show profits.

I love it when Americans complain about deforestation, basically why they have land to begin with.