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	<title>Comments on: Senate Passes Bill To Link Teacher Salaries To Student Peformance</title>
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	<link>http://www.northescambia.com/2010/03/senate-passes-bill-to-link-teacher-salaries-to-student-peformance</link>
	<description>Local News for Molino, Bratt, McDavid, Century, Walnut Hill, Cantonment</description>
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		<title>By: Keats'</title>
		<link>http://www.northescambia.com/2010/03/senate-passes-bill-to-link-teacher-salaries-to-student-peformance/comment-page-1#comment-37558</link>
		<dc:creator>Keats'</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Mar 2010 00:31:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.northescambia.com/?p=15615#comment-37558</guid>
		<description>I’m a current law student and former high school teacher.   I just read HB 7189 and would like to share some lesser known (but very dangerous) aspects of the bill.  
Little Known Aspects of HB 7189
-Won&#039;t be able to attract teachers from other states because they will have the starting pay of a brand new teacher. Teachers from other states will be labeled &quot;beginning teacher&quot; and will get the same starting pay grade as brand new teachers.   Imagine telling a 20 year veteran teacher from New York that her starting salary is $32,000!  This will only exacerbate the problem of finding good teachers.  Additionally, teachers from other states won&#039;t want to move here because of the other general provisions of this bill.
-Restricts the teachers who can teach reading math, science and other critical shortage areas.  Must be certified in the area, and cannot even teach out of field temporarily while getting certification in an area.  While this *might* be a good idea in math or science, it will make it even more difficult to have enough reading teachers. For example, a principal can no longer assign a  English teacher to teach reading , even temporarily, while getting a teacher is getting the additional reading certification. 
-Teacher cannot be rehired if students don&#039;t make gains in only 2 of 5 years!   If, for some reason a teacher&#039;s student don&#039;t do well enough on a standardized test, the teacher cannot be rehired, no matter how good of a teacher he/she may be.  We will lose some good teachers over this.  This will make good teachers much less likely to teach high risk students.  
-Makes it harder to get rid of bad teachers in first three years.  The bill grants tenure protection to all new teachers, meaning that all new teachers may only be removed for &quot;just cause&quot; - which is really hard to do (gross incompetence, felonies, etc.)   
-Reduced incentives for administrators.  ALL administrators and non-instructional teachers will have 50% of their pay determined by others, the AVERAGE gains of the entire school!  This also goes against the entire concept of incentives.  What incentive does a non-instructional teacher have to do better, when his pay is affected by how well *OTHER* students do in *OTHER* classrooms do on average! 
-Bill contradicts itself on National Board Certification.  In one area of the bill it requires that school cannot consider National Board Certification in teacher pay, but then also leaves intact the Dale Hickam Excellent Teaching Program, which gives teachers a 10% bonus for completing National Board Certification.  This bill is poorly drafted and poorly thought out.  
-Schools are forbidden from financially recognizing a teacher of the year!  We&#039;ve heard a lot about how teachers cannot be recognized for years of service, National Board Certification or graduate degrees.  Additionally, school boards are expressly forbidden from providing incentive pay to state or local teachers of the year!  Talk about perverse incentives! 
-Teacher retention must be based on standardized testing.  If school boards have to cut back on teachers, (as many have had to do because of budget cuts) the board must base their decisions primarily on standardized tests scores.  Of course, seniority is out the window, but note something even more pernicious--the school board has to ignore its own need for teachers in certain subject areas in the face of standardized test scores.  For example, what if a school board has to let go of 10% of its teachers.  Let&#039;s say that students in math, ESOL or reading on average make less gains per year.  Well, then the school board would be forced to let go all the teachers in that critical need subject area who are performing less on standardized tests, while other subject areas have a relevant surplus of teachers.  This is just plain bad policy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’m a current law student and former high school teacher.   I just read HB 7189 and would like to share some lesser known (but very dangerous) aspects of the bill.<br />
Little Known Aspects of HB 7189<br />
-Won&#8217;t be able to attract teachers from other states because they will have the starting pay of a brand new teacher. Teachers from other states will be labeled &#8220;beginning teacher&#8221; and will get the same starting pay grade as brand new teachers.   Imagine telling a 20 year veteran teacher from New York that her starting salary is $32,000!  This will only exacerbate the problem of finding good teachers.  Additionally, teachers from other states won&#8217;t want to move here because of the other general provisions of this bill.<br />
-Restricts the teachers who can teach reading math, science and other critical shortage areas.  Must be certified in the area, and cannot even teach out of field temporarily while getting certification in an area.  While this *might* be a good idea in math or science, it will make it even more difficult to have enough reading teachers. For example, a principal can no longer assign a  English teacher to teach reading , even temporarily, while getting a teacher is getting the additional reading certification.<br />
-Teacher cannot be rehired if students don&#8217;t make gains in only 2 of 5 years!   If, for some reason a teacher&#8217;s student don&#8217;t do well enough on a standardized test, the teacher cannot be rehired, no matter how good of a teacher he/she may be.  We will lose some good teachers over this.  This will make good teachers much less likely to teach high risk students.<br />
-Makes it harder to get rid of bad teachers in first three years.  The bill grants tenure protection to all new teachers, meaning that all new teachers may only be removed for &#8220;just cause&#8221; &#8211; which is really hard to do (gross incompetence, felonies, etc.)<br />
-Reduced incentives for administrators.  ALL administrators and non-instructional teachers will have 50% of their pay determined by others, the AVERAGE gains of the entire school!  This also goes against the entire concept of incentives.  What incentive does a non-instructional teacher have to do better, when his pay is affected by how well *OTHER* students do in *OTHER* classrooms do on average!<br />
-Bill contradicts itself on National Board Certification.  In one area of the bill it requires that school cannot consider National Board Certification in teacher pay, but then also leaves intact the Dale Hickam Excellent Teaching Program, which gives teachers a 10% bonus for completing National Board Certification.  This bill is poorly drafted and poorly thought out.<br />
-Schools are forbidden from financially recognizing a teacher of the year!  We&#8217;ve heard a lot about how teachers cannot be recognized for years of service, National Board Certification or graduate degrees.  Additionally, school boards are expressly forbidden from providing incentive pay to state or local teachers of the year!  Talk about perverse incentives!<br />
-Teacher retention must be based on standardized testing.  If school boards have to cut back on teachers, (as many have had to do because of budget cuts) the board must base their decisions primarily on standardized tests scores.  Of course, seniority is out the window, but note something even more pernicious&#8211;the school board has to ignore its own need for teachers in certain subject areas in the face of standardized test scores.  For example, what if a school board has to let go of 10% of its teachers.  Let&#8217;s say that students in math, ESOL or reading on average make less gains per year.  Well, then the school board would be forced to let go all the teachers in that critical need subject area who are performing less on standardized tests, while other subject areas have a relevant surplus of teachers.  This is just plain bad policy.</p>
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		<title>By: David Huie Green</title>
		<link>http://www.northescambia.com/2010/03/senate-passes-bill-to-link-teacher-salaries-to-student-peformance/comment-page-1#comment-37459</link>
		<dc:creator>David Huie Green</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Mar 2010 04:10:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.northescambia.com/?p=15615#comment-37459</guid>
		<description>REGARDING:
&quot;After observing some of what passes for “college” students these days, I feel somewhat sorry for the teachers that had these kids at the primary and secondary level. &quot;

If it&#039;s any consolation, I have read stories written by Isaac Asimov in the 1940s and he made it clear all professors at all colleges were convinced the high schools were passing woefully inadequate people onto them.

David thinking the end of civilization is still in sight but doesn&#039;t seem all that much closer than it must have in the forties</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>REGARDING:<br />
&#8220;After observing some of what passes for “college” students these days, I feel somewhat sorry for the teachers that had these kids at the primary and secondary level. &#8221;</p>
<p>If it&#8217;s any consolation, I have read stories written by Isaac Asimov in the 1940s and he made it clear all professors at all colleges were convinced the high schools were passing woefully inadequate people onto them.</p>
<p>David thinking the end of civilization is still in sight but doesn&#8217;t seem all that much closer than it must have in the forties</p>
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		<title>By: Just An Old Soldier</title>
		<link>http://www.northescambia.com/2010/03/senate-passes-bill-to-link-teacher-salaries-to-student-peformance/comment-page-1#comment-37374</link>
		<dc:creator>Just An Old Soldier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Mar 2010 22:37:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.northescambia.com/?p=15615#comment-37374</guid>
		<description>After observing some of what passes for &quot;college&quot; students these days, I feel somewhat sorry for the teachers that had these kids at the primary and secondary level. Learning is a skill ad ability that must be acquired by the Student in those early years, and it takes the work of parents, teachers, and the local community electing a good school board.

Now that state legislators and the Department of Education (what a joke on America) are getting involved...well - when Big Government gets involved, the Citizen (and Society) loses - and in this case, the family will lose, and the child that doesn&#039;t pick up on some personal responsibility? He or she will suffer a lifetime of ignorance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After observing some of what passes for &#8220;college&#8221; students these days, I feel somewhat sorry for the teachers that had these kids at the primary and secondary level. Learning is a skill ad ability that must be acquired by the Student in those early years, and it takes the work of parents, teachers, and the local community electing a good school board.</p>
<p>Now that state legislators and the Department of Education (what a joke on America) are getting involved&#8230;well &#8211; when Big Government gets involved, the Citizen (and Society) loses &#8211; and in this case, the family will lose, and the child that doesn&#8217;t pick up on some personal responsibility? He or she will suffer a lifetime of ignorance.</p>
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		<title>By: mt</title>
		<link>http://www.northescambia.com/2010/03/senate-passes-bill-to-link-teacher-salaries-to-student-peformance/comment-page-1#comment-37370</link>
		<dc:creator>mt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Mar 2010 21:18:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.northescambia.com/?p=15615#comment-37370</guid>
		<description>The following was so well said by a Florida teacher that I felt it deserved to be posted on this site:

I have been a Florida teacher for 14 years and I have absolutely no problem with accountability. Give me a class full of Level 1 math students who attend school on a regular basis, come to class both willing and prepared to learn, complete the work they are assigned and display appropriate behavior. I GUARANTEE that they will make major academic gains. But I WILL NOT be responsible for students who never come to school, get 3 hours of sleep each night because they are on MySpace/Facebook until 3am, refuse to complete any of their assignments and make it their mission each day to disrupt my class. I do not have the luxury of choosing the students who attend my class. I am the parent of 2 children who do very well in school. My son is in 5th grade and has never made less than an A. Do I give credit to his teachers for this? ABSOLUTELY!!! Do I give credit to my son for this? ABSOLUTELY!!! Do I give credit to myself for this? ABSOLUTELY!!! Education is a partnership between teachers, parents and students. Teachers are only 1/3 of the formula for success but this bill is singling us out as the ONLY factor in a students success or failure. Teachers cannot and should not be financially punished for something totally beyond their control.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The following was so well said by a Florida teacher that I felt it deserved to be posted on this site:</p>
<p>I have been a Florida teacher for 14 years and I have absolutely no problem with accountability. Give me a class full of Level 1 math students who attend school on a regular basis, come to class both willing and prepared to learn, complete the work they are assigned and display appropriate behavior. I GUARANTEE that they will make major academic gains. But I WILL NOT be responsible for students who never come to school, get 3 hours of sleep each night because they are on MySpace/Facebook until 3am, refuse to complete any of their assignments and make it their mission each day to disrupt my class. I do not have the luxury of choosing the students who attend my class. I am the parent of 2 children who do very well in school. My son is in 5th grade and has never made less than an A. Do I give credit to his teachers for this? ABSOLUTELY!!! Do I give credit to my son for this? ABSOLUTELY!!! Do I give credit to myself for this? ABSOLUTELY!!! Education is a partnership between teachers, parents and students. Teachers are only 1/3 of the formula for success but this bill is singling us out as the ONLY factor in a students success or failure. Teachers cannot and should not be financially punished for something totally beyond their control.</p>
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		<title>By: K teacher</title>
		<link>http://www.northescambia.com/2010/03/senate-passes-bill-to-link-teacher-salaries-to-student-peformance/comment-page-1#comment-37308</link>
		<dc:creator>K teacher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Mar 2010 00:59:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.northescambia.com/?p=15615#comment-37308</guid>
		<description>I am a kindergarten teacher in one of Escambia County&#039;s inner school!  Today my room was trashed three times by a 6 year old.  Flipping over desk and tables, throwing books and scissors anything he could get his hands on.  It took some one 15 minutes to come help me!! and then it took myself and the other 16 children another 15 to clean up and settle back down!  Finally he was removed for 10 minutes and returned to me!!!  This occurs daily!!  I am regular ed NOT special ed!!  How can a teacher educate the rest of the students when this is occuring in the room!!!!!  We need help not another stupid bill!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am a kindergarten teacher in one of Escambia County&#8217;s inner school!  Today my room was trashed three times by a 6 year old.  Flipping over desk and tables, throwing books and scissors anything he could get his hands on.  It took some one 15 minutes to come help me!! and then it took myself and the other 16 children another 15 to clean up and settle back down!  Finally he was removed for 10 minutes and returned to me!!!  This occurs daily!!  I am regular ed NOT special ed!!  How can a teacher educate the rest of the students when this is occuring in the room!!!!!  We need help not another stupid bill!!</p>
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		<title>By: David Huie Green</title>
		<link>http://www.northescambia.com/2010/03/senate-passes-bill-to-link-teacher-salaries-to-student-peformance/comment-page-1#comment-37289</link>
		<dc:creator>David Huie Green</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Mar 2010 22:33:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.northescambia.com/?p=15615#comment-37289</guid>
		<description>REGARDING:
&quot;Most everyone in the real world is gauged by the results in their work. Why not teachers? What are they so afraid of? I get it.&quot;

They are afraid politicians will make it impossible for them to do their job of educating the children. 

They are afraid of living in a world of uneducated people from the one to prepares their food to the one who prepares their medicine to the one who builds or fixes their car. 

They are afraid they will be fired for not producing silk purses from pig&#039;s ears.

They are already being called failures for not stopping children from dropping out of school because their parents were too drunk to notice.

They are already being called failures for not producing literate adults from children who don&#039;t bother to go to class half the time and don&#039;t listen the other half.

While all jobs are important, I can&#039;t think of any more noble than that of a teacher. They build the future. Without them most children would never get a decent job or be able to do a decent job. Without them, many would never learn to brush their teeth or wash. In fact without some sort of teacher, children seldom learn anything. 

I imagine the reason you single out public school teachers is because the worst people were taught by them. I imagine you imagine the millions of decent people would have naturally happened and the sorry ones are the result of subversive teachers.

Personally, I like the idea of individual tests. Not How did the class as a whole do? but How did this one do compared to expectations? What did he bring to the class and what did he take out of it. It is as foolish to blame a teacher when a child with an IQ of 79 doesn&#039;t learn rocket science as it is to think that all rocket scientists must have had only the best teachers. Right now a school is considered a failure if the bottom quartile didn&#039;t reach certain goals even though the school and certainly the individual teacher had no control over most of the factors involved.

You are afraid they want to make left wing Democrats out of previously pure pupils. I&#039;m sure some of their attitudes off subject come through every now and then but most of them just want to produce decent citizens despite the opposition of those who consider them the enemy. 

If you treat teachers like your enemy, eventually there won&#039;t be enough willing to try, THEN you WILL see some failures.

David for silk purses</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>REGARDING:<br />
&#8220;Most everyone in the real world is gauged by the results in their work. Why not teachers? What are they so afraid of? I get it.&#8221;</p>
<p>They are afraid politicians will make it impossible for them to do their job of educating the children. </p>
<p>They are afraid of living in a world of uneducated people from the one to prepares their food to the one who prepares their medicine to the one who builds or fixes their car. </p>
<p>They are afraid they will be fired for not producing silk purses from pig&#8217;s ears.</p>
<p>They are already being called failures for not stopping children from dropping out of school because their parents were too drunk to notice.</p>
<p>They are already being called failures for not producing literate adults from children who don&#8217;t bother to go to class half the time and don&#8217;t listen the other half.</p>
<p>While all jobs are important, I can&#8217;t think of any more noble than that of a teacher. They build the future. Without them most children would never get a decent job or be able to do a decent job. Without them, many would never learn to brush their teeth or wash. In fact without some sort of teacher, children seldom learn anything. </p>
<p>I imagine the reason you single out public school teachers is because the worst people were taught by them. I imagine you imagine the millions of decent people would have naturally happened and the sorry ones are the result of subversive teachers.</p>
<p>Personally, I like the idea of individual tests. Not How did the class as a whole do? but How did this one do compared to expectations? What did he bring to the class and what did he take out of it. It is as foolish to blame a teacher when a child with an IQ of 79 doesn&#8217;t learn rocket science as it is to think that all rocket scientists must have had only the best teachers. Right now a school is considered a failure if the bottom quartile didn&#8217;t reach certain goals even though the school and certainly the individual teacher had no control over most of the factors involved.</p>
<p>You are afraid they want to make left wing Democrats out of previously pure pupils. I&#8217;m sure some of their attitudes off subject come through every now and then but most of them just want to produce decent citizens despite the opposition of those who consider them the enemy. </p>
<p>If you treat teachers like your enemy, eventually there won&#8217;t be enough willing to try, THEN you WILL see some failures.</p>
<p>David for silk purses</p>
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		<title>By: Uv Gotoo B. Kiddingme</title>
		<link>http://www.northescambia.com/2010/03/senate-passes-bill-to-link-teacher-salaries-to-student-peformance/comment-page-1#comment-37268</link>
		<dc:creator>Uv Gotoo B. Kiddingme</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Mar 2010 19:56:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.northescambia.com/?p=15615#comment-37268</guid>
		<description>This is a great step towards busting the politically driven teachers&#039; unions and ending the massive left wing indoctrinization of students.  Most everyone in the real world is guaged by the results in their work.  Why not teachers?  What are they so afraid of?  I get it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a great step towards busting the politically driven teachers&#8217; unions and ending the massive left wing indoctrinization of students.  Most everyone in the real world is guaged by the results in their work.  Why not teachers?  What are they so afraid of?  I get it.</p>
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		<title>By: David Huie Green</title>
		<link>http://www.northescambia.com/2010/03/senate-passes-bill-to-link-teacher-salaries-to-student-peformance/comment-page-1#comment-37153</link>
		<dc:creator>David Huie Green</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Mar 2010 12:13:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.northescambia.com/?p=15615#comment-37153</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s not my job to run the train
The whistle I can&#039;t blow
I&#039;m not allowed to say how fast
The train&#039;s allowed to go
I&#039;m not allowed to let off steam
Or even ring the bell
But let the blessed thing jump the track
And see who catches...I forget how it ends

Teaching holds some similar situations. 

You don&#039;t pick and choose your students but you are expected to be successful with whoever is laid at your doorstep. Some are simply more capable than others but that is seldom taken into account.

Despite sending children off to school at age 4 for some reason which seems reasonable to the powers that be, you aren&#039;t really involved in the raising/rearing of the children. Somebody else has already set them down whatever path they will tend to take.

You don&#039;t pick your textbooks, those are picked for you. I&#039;m not sure there is anything wrong with this, just saying it is one less thing over which you have control.

You don&#039;t pick your hours. You WILL teach at a certain time unless there is some more important matter like a pep rally the children need to attend. Some subjects need more time for different students, some need less. If you take too long, they get bored and get distracted. If you take too little, they get frustrated and get distracted. And since they are individuals, you are bound to be too fast or too slow for most of them some of the time.

Impressive they are ever considered successful teachers at all.

Not surprising they are blamed when the blessed thing jumps the track.

David for perfect parents</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s not my job to run the train<br />
The whistle I can&#8217;t blow<br />
I&#8217;m not allowed to say how fast<br />
The train&#8217;s allowed to go<br />
I&#8217;m not allowed to let off steam<br />
Or even ring the bell<br />
But let the blessed thing jump the track<br />
And see who catches&#8230;I forget how it ends</p>
<p>Teaching holds some similar situations. </p>
<p>You don&#8217;t pick and choose your students but you are expected to be successful with whoever is laid at your doorstep. Some are simply more capable than others but that is seldom taken into account.</p>
<p>Despite sending children off to school at age 4 for some reason which seems reasonable to the powers that be, you aren&#8217;t really involved in the raising/rearing of the children. Somebody else has already set them down whatever path they will tend to take.</p>
<p>You don&#8217;t pick your textbooks, those are picked for you. I&#8217;m not sure there is anything wrong with this, just saying it is one less thing over which you have control.</p>
<p>You don&#8217;t pick your hours. You WILL teach at a certain time unless there is some more important matter like a pep rally the children need to attend. Some subjects need more time for different students, some need less. If you take too long, they get bored and get distracted. If you take too little, they get frustrated and get distracted. And since they are individuals, you are bound to be too fast or too slow for most of them some of the time.</p>
<p>Impressive they are ever considered successful teachers at all.</p>
<p>Not surprising they are blamed when the blessed thing jumps the track.</p>
<p>David for perfect parents</p>
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		<title>By: justsayin</title>
		<link>http://www.northescambia.com/2010/03/senate-passes-bill-to-link-teacher-salaries-to-student-peformance/comment-page-1#comment-37092</link>
		<dc:creator>justsayin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Mar 2010 02:21:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.northescambia.com/?p=15615#comment-37092</guid>
		<description>Former Administrator, I knew there was dirty dealing with textbook/test publishers somewhere at the bottom of this mess.  There it is.  You won&#039;t see or hear of this any media, folks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Former Administrator, I knew there was dirty dealing with textbook/test publishers somewhere at the bottom of this mess.  There it is.  You won&#8217;t see or hear of this any media, folks!</p>
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		<title>By: anydaynow</title>
		<link>http://www.northescambia.com/2010/03/senate-passes-bill-to-link-teacher-salaries-to-student-peformance/comment-page-1#comment-37041</link>
		<dc:creator>anydaynow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Mar 2010 23:29:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.northescambia.com/?p=15615#comment-37041</guid>
		<description>Former Administrator-Thank you for sharing your perspective and for your candor.
Of course the ultimate goal of these politicians is to eliminate publicaly funded education, and they will try to make you believe that your financial contribution to  education will be reduced if the system is turned over to private for profit businesses.  It&#039;s all about feeding fear of the tax boogieman.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Former Administrator-Thank you for sharing your perspective and for your candor.<br />
Of course the ultimate goal of these politicians is to eliminate publicaly funded education, and they will try to make you believe that your financial contribution to  education will be reduced if the system is turned over to private for profit businesses.  It&#8217;s all about feeding fear of the tax boogieman.</p>
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