Comments on: Blog: Every Knee Shall Bow

By: B. J. M.

B. J. M. — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 00:14:33 +0000

This is a degrace and the time is soon approaching that many of God’s servants will be imprisoned for their faith…..the Apostle Paul spent many days, weeks , months and years in jail. Our Lord was crucified……what can we expect???

Rev. BJM…

By: Bill Sherman

Bill Sherman — Fri, 29 May 2009 23:05:21 +0000

It look very little time, when you have some knowledge and experience it is only a matter of a few keystrokes. As was stated the U.S. Supreme Court has NEVER banned prayer or the Bible from public schools, my daughter was a member of the Fellowship of Christian Students at Escambia County High School throughout high school.

Let me explain it this way – Bring Prayer into Public Schools – but first – Whose prayer? We must satisfy everyone because there is no mention of a specific religion! So on the first Monday of the month we do Anglican, then Baptist on Tuesday, then Buddhism on Wednesday, then Catholicism on Thursday, then Deism on Friday, then Episcopalians on Monday, then Hinduism on Tuesday, then Holiness on Wednesday, then Islamic on Thursday, then Judaism on Friday, then Lutheranism on Monday, then Methodism on Tuesday, then Nazarene on Wednesday, then Pentecostal on Thursday, then Rastafarian on Friday, then Samaritanism on Monday, then Scientology on Tuesday, then Sikhism on Wednesday, then Taoism on Thursday and finally (for now) Zoroastrianism on Friday. Then you start over to make certain that no religion was excluded and to then include the overlooked religions and now begin again … and do it again and again and again. How do you feel? Being forced to listen to the prayers and beliefs of a dozen or more religions that you do not believe in – all because YOU wanted prayer in public schools. Be careful what you wish for … you may get it!

Do you now understand why it is imperative that the government or its’ agents must remain neutral in matters of religion. Read your history, look at all the religious wars throughout the ages, look at how one state sponsored religion has oppressed, tortured, and killed millions upon millions in the same country throughout time. Do you not know that Jews, Christians, and Muslims ALL sprang from the same source. That Jesus and ALL the disciples were born and raised Jewish. That “Allah” is the standard Arabic translation for GOD – the only Deity, creator of the universe and omnipotent.

As for your statement “seeing as how all those PC twinkies decided to play cat and mouse with Christianity. Big mistake on their part.” I am totally clueless as to what you are referencing, as I am sure many others are also. You have not lived until you have walked in someone else’s shoes.

John, Andy, My 2 Cents, and Jim Bishop drop me a line.

By: TD

TD — Fri, 29 May 2009 19:03:46 +0000

Wow, all big and fancy, pointing out every wrong thing I said. You must have nothing better to do with your time. My point is that prayer may not be banned now according to YOU but it’sonly a matter of time, seeing as how all those PC twinkies decided to play cat and mouse with Christianity. Big mistake on their part.

By: Bill Sherman

Bill Sherman — Wed, 27 May 2009 21:00:36 +0000

Like most children, The Truth’s Daughter is long on enthusiasm but short on experience and knowledge. This is not bashing but merely an observation based upon her own statements and lack of perception.

1) Had she truly read “every single comment since my mother last posted” then she would have seen my posting about the Abington decision. The Supreme Court has NEVER banned prayer or the Bible from public schools. As legal guidelines issued in both the Clinton and Bush administrations made clear, students have a First Amendment right to pray alone or in groups, bring their scriptures to school, share their beliefs with classmates, form religious clubs in secondary schools and in other ways express their faith during the school day — as long as they don’t disrupt the school or interfere with the rights of others. This decision supports TTD’s own statement that “Christians have just as much right to pray as others do not to pray.”

2) Her second misconception is a common mistake, but still incorrect. “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.” This is part of the Declaration of Independence and NOT the U. S. Constitution as she erroneously stated.

As for her statement – “I got in some major trouble for a religious answer I put on a TEST. But I didn’t back down. The textbook had it’s opinion, and I had mine.” And the teacher wanted what the textbook said and not your religious answer … sounds fair to me … 2 + 2 = 4 is the accepted book answer and it happens to be correct. The teacher did not ask her to change her beliefs but to simply give the textbook answer. After 12 years of high school, 2 Bachelor of Science degrees and a Doctorate I can assure you that the textbook answer is the one the teacher wants.

However if what John said in his note to ***Virginia Roukema*** on May 14 is to be believed then the behavior of some teachers at Molino Park Elementary school have crossed so far over the line drawn by the U.S. Supreme Court as to be criminal in nature. To hold someone against their will and to attempt to coerce them into doing something that they would not normally do or to single them out for special treatment may meet the requirements for harassment, child abuse or even kidnapping.

I am certain that I would not want my children to have any part in a religion that proclaims its superiority by belittling the beliefs of others or coercing children to change their beliefs. Does not sound like the “golden rule” that I learned.

bill.sherman.1@hotmail.com

By: The Truth's Daughter

The Truth's Daughter — Wed, 27 May 2009 00:35:38 +0000

This time I speak alone. Because I have read every single comment since my mother last posted and I am ashamed. Ashamed of the American nation. Here we are, fighting over religion when there are wars going on. I swear, I’m in the seventh grade and I can act more mature than some of you adults. And I am one of the few who will not let my religion be suppressed when all other are accepted, encouraged even. That’s right. If you look at my mother and my first post, you’ll notice that. That quote came directly from me, from the observations of a seventh grader. Because I know it’s true. I’ve seen it firsthand. I got in some major trouble for a religious answer I put on a TEST. But I didn’t back down. The textbook had it’s opinion, and I had mine. Another quote of mine, “Christians have just as much right to pray as others do not to pray.” We don’t force to to pray, we’ll gladly let you do things your way. But you WILL not suppress the Christian faith.

There is an excerpt in the constitution about how all men are created equal. That they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights. That among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Liberty. Freedom. You are free to do things your way, and so are us Christians.

John, I will pray for you. And when Judgment Day finally arrives, I hope you are ready to meet your maker.

By: Bill Sherman

Bill Sherman — Tue, 26 May 2009 19:18:34 +0000

Had Michelle Winkler followed the instructions of Jud Crane to offer a two to three minute “thought for the day” that was not to include a prayer, obeyed the U. S. Supreme Court decisions of 1962 -63 that state that students have a First Amendment right to pray alone or in groups, bring their scriptures to school, share their beliefs with classmates, form religious clubs in secondary schools and in other ways express their faith during the school day — as long as they don’t disrupt the school or interfere with the rights of others or simlpy complied with Jesus own admonition to “Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s” she would not have broken the law and would not be in so much trouble.

What the Abington Township School District v. Schempp decision required was that teachers and administrators neither promote nor denigrate any religion — a commitment to state neutrality that protects the religious freedom of students of all faiths and no faith. As long as Ms. Winkler represents the state at a state function she is not being neutral. If you break the rules, the law, you suffer the consequences. If you do not like the rules, the law, then change it, but until it is changed it is the LAW and is to be obeyed. Just because you are a Christian does not mean that you get to cherry pick the laws that you will or will not obey. The laws are for everyone … or NO ONE!

I am certain that had a Muslim administrative assistant offered a prayer at the ceremony that all the Christians would have gone ballistic.

As for Ms. Winkler, if you feel that you cannot compromise your beliefs and will not obey the law, then perhaps you should seek employment in the private sector at a Christian school that supports your values and let another more qualified and law abiding citizen have your job. People are routinely fired from their jobs for insubordination, which is where you first went wrong and will be your undoing.

By: Brenda

Brenda — Sat, 23 May 2009 23:01:45 +0000

And when our days on earth are done, when by Thy grace the victory is won and we face our creator, we will be judged by how we have completed our task here on earth and handled the “certain inalienable rights endowed by our creator”. The Bible tells us to obey those in authority unless it goes against the truth in the scripture. I think we are being called to be light not heat and bring peace, just as the Prince of Peace, Jesus did when He walked this earth. I don’t know, I think the best thing to ask here is “What would Jesus do?”. I am praying for this and other similiar situations, that God would make a way , grant us the wisdom to know when to go and when to hold and that we would be strengthened to handle these difficult situations in a way that would please and honor our Father, God, maker of heaven and earth.

By: John

John — Thu, 14 May 2009 19:54:14 +0000

Dear *THE DOER *
I dont have a problem with you answering a question posed from a child about your faith. That’s what I consider normal human interaction. But to say none of your fellow teachers ‘give sermons or sermonettes’ is highly misleading and inaccurate to say the least. I dont have a problem with you wearing a pin or ornament of your religious faith. That is, as long as you would allow and encourage a Jewish teacher or student to wear a Star of David pin. Or support a Muslim Student or Teacher to wear an Islamic Cresent adornment. Or allow a LDS/Mormon Student or Teacher to wear a pin of the Angel of Moroni….see where this is going? I could go on and on. Where does it end?

In Islamic States they even have Islamic Courts. It is called Sharia,AKA; Islamic Law. It basically means by law that any affirmation of any other faith other then Islam is a Crime. The punishments vary from one Islamic nation from another, but they include Murder,decapitation,stoning,flogging,jail time and fines.
If you are not Muslim in those countries you are forced to pay a Kaffir Tax.(Kaffir means outsider)

I’m not doubting your abilities as a teacher here in Escambia County, I would however, encourage you to seek employment at a Christian school to better utilize your faith based inclinations and abilities.
I want my kids to learn an education and NOT religious Dogma/Doctrine.
I fear the day my children come home with Islamic homework(or any religious material/dogma). I really do.
Your views and opinions only perpetuate my greatest of fears.
If you would like, I can help by listing the many fine Christian Academies throughout our area for your perusal for possible employment…I’m a giver. It’s what I do and what I’m all about.
Have a Great day!

By: Andy

Andy — Thu, 14 May 2009 19:22:24 +0000

John brings up some good ones. I’ll add that it matters little whether those individuals were actually Christians or not (a rebuttal sure to come). Bombings and killings have still happened “in the name of God” or what God meant to those people. It’s a representation of the worst consequences. But not sure how one can come to the definite conclusion and “know that they’re not Christians.” Maybe they are or maybe they aren’t. Are middle-eastern extremists not Muslin? I don’t know. The point is that radical Christianity in the US is not so different from terrorism (Al-Qaeda is making more press because of the # of deaths and because there is a war going on with that group – last I heard there has been no war declared against KKK, Lamb of God, etc.). But there are similarities – both are closed-minded, both are forceful to implement their own thinking upon others.

It all seems a little off-topic. However, this all relates to prayer in that there are many in the Christian community who behave in radical ways. I think non-Christians are very turned off by this. So to get all riled up and say “this nation is going to hell” or “God will judge us for taking out prayer” may indeed push people further away. If you 100% confident in your faith, there’s no need to force it throught the channel of a classroom.

On a sadder note, we’re walking a fine line with not letting our teachers exert freedom of speech if we’re at the point where a teacher can’t pray at their own desk or wear a cross or have a cross tattoo showing. If I were a teacher I would hate that and I think it’s wrong to say someone can’t do that. But I guess if it prevents some believers from forcing God down people’s throats and completely turning them off, maybe it’s for better?

By: John

John — Thu, 14 May 2009 19:15:50 +0000

***Virginia Roukema***
No maam. That is incorrect.
Just last week ,Molino Park Elementary had a field trip to Olive Baptist Church to watch a music/symphony event being held there. Which is riding on the edge, taking into consideration had this event been held at a Islamic Mosque (Gasp!) or Jewish Temple(Dbl Gasp!) the Christians on this blog would have blown a gasket. Fact is,had it been held at those two places of worship it would have never transpired.

But it gets even more odd from there… My fifth grader was told that if she attends Church, she should wear a dress to this field trip. Nice thought,right? If she does NOT attend church she was to wear regular school clothes,thus singling her out for the rest of her classmates and teachers. Yeah, NOT good. See where I’m going with this? Think I’m done?
You would be incorrect in that assumption,but thanks for asking.
After the musical show, students were then ordered to pick up the bibles and read from it.To follow along with the preaching. No big deal right? This is a public school event!
Okay. I’m done.
No I’m not. Because this religious indoctrination at this public school event kicked up a notch.
The students were then asked if they had accepted Jesus.If they hadnt, “Here’s your chance now!” I expect this kind of peer pressure from Drug Dealers, not from my childs school!
My child is Ten years old.

Have I said anything? No. This event is only a small part of the a bigger problem here.
Why havent I said anything? Called someone out on the carpet for this? Complained?
Simple.
My 10 year old innocent child would be persecuted.Looked down on. Made an example of. Called a “heathen” or whatever is the newest catch phrase from the religious fundamentals.
Not only that, I wouldnt want to walk outside my house someday and see a cross burning in my yard,my dog found dead or eggs on my house.